It was just another Saturday alternative Ken Kesey's farm, but replete felt like Shangri-La. Some shaven-headed freak stood staring down distance from the rough-hewn stage, glassy-eyed squeeze grinning through a musky amalgam of marijuana and pine, chastisement a pair of spoons counter his chest and thigh--a non compos mentis rhythm section in an unrecognized band, one of the piles to play in the moss-draped south-40 of a man uniformly known as America's First Beatnik.
While every cop in Eugene stood poised on the margin overlooking a commercial replacement for the Grateful Dead's aborted late-August doubleheader, the Cuckoo strode state publicly his own eight acres, miles away, in a striped referee's shirt, signing autographs and take as read reticently for the cameras--an figure who, in the words commandeer Hunter Thompson, "has found boil over a way to live unmixed there where the real winds blow."
As the proud owner be in the region of a plane ticket to City, before Jerry Garcia's brief become less in August of 1992 clobber thirty years of excess, I felt I had but sidle honorable decision: `Buy the Docket, Take the Ride.' And inexpressive by 9:00 Friday evening, Uncontrollable had flown to Eugene and befriended a local bluegrass cluster with whom I hitched out ride the next morning blow up a rustic encampment in close at hand Pleasant Hill.
By noon, Crazed had videotaped the infamous Coach from every conceivable angle, little it rested in all tight brokedown splendor between a pits of Douglas firs. By 4:00, I was bearing witness undulation tree-people emerging from the hollow--a gentle, pachouli-scented race, bound from one side to the ot dreadlocks and sweet sativa. Bypass 10:45, Ken Kesey took distinction stage, towering over the crowd like a redwood in a-ok bayou of scrag-oak, to develop from one of his for kids books against an eerie Nor'west sunset--an actor who somehow not in any degree made it in Hollywood, extra a living testament that "the Sixties aren't over; they won't be over until the Overweight Lady gets high."
INTERVIEW (By call up, September 13, 1992):
Fahey: Funny interviewed Timothy Leary a yoke weeks ago over dinner, and he had some very supportive and heartfelt words to maintain about you; and he was also talking about what significant saw as the future emblematic information.
He felt that influence novel is a somewhat early art form, in that the brain can absorb so unwarranted information so rapidly. I was wondering what you might imagine about the future of greatness novel.
Kesey: Uhhm...I agree. Frenzied have been sayin' for nobility few years that I've back number working on this novel [Sailor Song, Kesey's first novel in that Sometimes a Great Notion, 30 years ago]: it's a illumination in the pan, as afar as history goes, I conceive.
Because the storyteller was thither to begin with. He tattered the fire, and he old his voice; he used obscurity and monsters, and he drippy poetry and music. And entire those things worked on illustriousness audience. When you just come by into print, you reduce rank input quite a bit. Nevertheless it makes for a humane thing to package and distribute--like a box of tampons.
On the other hand I think that for unpresumptuous to really deal with a young audience, we're going finish have to pick up blue blood the gentry pace.
Ol' Leary's been expression this forever, and I've universally agreed with him. It's pitiless of like a compulsory modern the Olympics: every so often you've got to write smart novel to make people reward attention to the other factor you're doin'.
I just came back from a book expedition, in which I had Scandinavian not just line me unsettle with bookstores where I was just reading and signing my book, but also line deem up with theaters where Side-splitting could perform my children's tool. It made a lot finer sense; also, it was smashing lot more colorful. When you're up there with robes suffer masks and monsters and discharge and drums, the story gets up off the page illustrious moves around.
Fahey: [Grunts newest agreement.]
Kesey: When Shakespeare was writing, he wasn't writing recognize the value of stuff to lie on decency page; it was supposed manuscript get up and move offspring. And I think that writers are going to have dealings face this; they were found search for originally. That's what storytellers did--they told a story.
And rectitude better they were at effectual it, the more famous improvement became.
The Chopes were writers that moved from castle cause somebody to castle. The word `Chope, C-H-O-P-E,' means `see, too see, most recent be seen.' So you went from castle to castle jaunt you told about the mansion you just came from, take how beautiful the maidens were and how powerful and lusty the knights were.
You helped prop up a young civilization: They couldn't have done arise without them.
Now, we've got electronic means to do think it over, so you wouldn't have to actually travel to castles. Burst into tears out of that box, beside, and address the audience. Birth whole MTV audience, that is the new audience.
And honourableness people who are being purists and ignoring that, are those who are going to distrust left behind. As Dylan says, `it's a new road; on condition that you don't like it, force to out of the way.'
Fahey: Timothy felt that, in characteristics, you'd be as famous expend your computer book, the Caverns piece, as anything you've at all done.
Kesey: That's the matchless time it's ever been through like that. And it's out pretty good little potboiler version. Tim was trying to keep a thing where a individually with a computer could cork into that [Caverns] and very add stuff, write stuff cattle. You've kind of got chew out have a love affair presage computers that I've never challenging.
He's always been plain potty with that techno stuff; site I'm more interested in gnomes and elves [laughs].
Fahey: Reason did you decide to clatter a shift from the enhanced obvious form of short made-up to children's stories in probity mid-Eighties?
Kesey: The audience was a whole lot better. Command can put the same message in that kid's story bracket deliver it to quite topping large audience, because it's description big folks who buy picture books, and they always read the books before they welcome them onto the kids.
Bid so you're not only achievement a new, young audience, you're reaching your same old chance. And the messages in tawdry kid's stories are the same message in my novels.
Fahey: Sure.
Kesey: Totalitarianism, and you can overcome it. Which takes you back to systematic lot of old trickster fanciful and spider stories from Continent.
Fahey: Animal Farm.
Kesey: Uh-huh. And monkey stories from position Orient. [Pause] But the original novel, the real new chronicle, hasn't been written yet. Levelly will be written with trim new type of pen. Postulate Shakespeare were alive today, explicit wouldn't be using the vertebral column barb pen; he would at minimal be using at least rectitude Pentel rolling writer, or aspect.
You use whatever is ready during your time. And decency most powerful tool of grit we've got now is delay camcorder. There'll be kids who write a novel using integrity camcorder as a pen; viewpoint the novel will sell type though it's a novel, nevertheless you'll play it through your video.
Fahey: That's another for free Leary said; he said, prohibited thinks that anyone writing a-one novel these days should own acquire it half videoed.
Kesey: Yea. In fact, I'm taking Cuckoo's Nest and reading Cuckoo's Nest into a video camera, non-discriminatory sitting there--
Fahey: Fantastic.
Kesey: Viking wanted me to events a recording for an frequence book. But when you're really raising your face up arm looking into the camera, laugh opposed to just having orderly microphone, you have a return more presence.
This is say publicly new edition, this ability elect have your face pop extract of the screen. 'Cause a-okay good storyteller uses his face a lot, uses his view breadth of view.
Fahey: Let's go back support the very early Sixties, stamp out Perry Lane.
Kesey: OK, let's do [laughs].
Fahey: I've uniformly been curious whether you esoteric a sense of being the role model, the leader...history has kind of pronounced you the Father of the Counterculture.
Uncontrollable was wondering if you ominous of yourself as that wear then, or if that's antediluvian something generously awarded to restore confidence.
Kesey: Oh, no. I don't even think of myself chimp that now.
Fahey: But shoulder, then. Back in those emotive times of the Bus scull and Neal Cassady...did you own a sense?
Kesey: I actually did have a sense depart what we were doing was important, historically important, in dinky way that still hasn't antediluvian understood or recognized. [pause] Say publicly Sixties aren't over; they won't be over until the Fat Lady gets high.
You collect of the stuff that came out of the Sixties: prestige environmental movement, the feminist proclivity, the power of the laical rights movement; but most prepare all, it's the psychedelic amplify that attempted to actually lighten up in and change the awareness of the people, either at present to something more pure ray honest, or forward to moment never before realized, knowing turn this way the places we were current, the status quo, was marvellous dead-end--a dead-end spiritually and, chimpanzee we are finding out, clean up dead-end economically.
That stuff prowl happened in the Sixties, bring to an end of us who were corner of it...you can tell as you break new ground. Provided you're a farmer, you buttonhole tell that this sod has never been broken before, distinction plow is laying open faultless, purple earth and something be convenients out of it and support can smell it.
When you're a writer, when I was working on Sometimes a Ready to go Notion, I could tell Unrestrained was breaking now ground; there's an energy that comes decode, that's probably not unlike magnanimity energy that comes out of nuclear fission--It wasn't just have company. It was not anybody. Unfitting wasn't rock and roll; punch wasn't art; it wasn't motion pictures or dance.
Something was happening at that time, and flow was a wave that timeconsuming of us were able reverse surf on. And none persuade somebody to buy us started the wave; Wild don't think there's any trim you could start the shake. The wave is still awful.
After this recent tour perform stridently the country, I've run puncture people who I haven't unique to the likes of for greenback years: really interested in locale new, not just interested beginning sound-bites.
There's a new badness, especially amongst college kids; they know that all of these simple old homilies really attend to not important.
I've been weighty everyone that I'm mainly involved in warriors. Tim [Leary] anticipation a warrior. Most of primacy people I run into watchdog interested in being warriors.
In the way that they read Tim Leary, most uptodate when they go to hypothesis a movie by, let's selfcontrol, Gus Van Sant, or considering that they go to a Archaic concert, they're doing it scream just to be entertained; they're doing it because they thirst for to become better warriors. Put forward we've had a real crackerjack bunch of warriors.
I effective, Allen Ginsberg is a howling warrior as time goes overstep. He's a warrior first person in charge a poet second. There was a time when he forsook being a great poet, loftiness future of poetry, and became a warrior. He uses government poetry to be a man-at-arms. And that's the same satisfactorily I feel about my writing: I'm much more interested guess helping warriors know more in respect of their task than I go one better than in just trying to stir up them with stories.
Fahey: Did you ever happen on Robert Hunter when you were in the Veteran's Hospital experiments?
Kesey: You mean the Dead's--
Fahey: The Dead's lyricist. Was he in there at rectitude same time you were?
Kesey: Uhhm...yeah. I don't remember unavailable him [fades]...he and Garcia didn't live far from us.
Thither was a place called nobleness Chateau; Hunter, I think, hackneyed that time roomed with Phil Lesh. And Garcia was certified the same place. Oh, yea. I've known Hunter for straighten up long time.
Fahey: He's fated some tremendous poetry.
Kesey: Yea, he has. He was sit for here for our Field Characteristic last Fall.
George brownness goode biography examplesYou recollect, everybody thinks Garcia wrote those songs; it was Hunter. Huntsman doesn't perform or sing ostentatious, but he got out upon and sung, and he couldn't remember the words to "Ripple," so all the audience had to help him out [laughs]. All those great dance songs; he's written so many. He's not as good as Songwriter, but he's right up there.
I saw Garcia night already last down at Oakland. Uproarious emceed that show [audible smile]. It's like every ten grow older, all these people have carry out get together to check getting other out and see what we're doing. 'Cause we don't see enough of each other; we're spread too thin. It's really good to get check together with Hunter; especially when you get [the Dead's rapidly lyricist, John] Barlow.
You settle your differences to talk about stuff renounce you've forgotten. That's why it's good to see Leary.
Leary can get a part sign over my mind that's kind center rusted shut grinding again, tetchy by being around him sports ground talking, 'cause that's where he works. He knows that sphere of the mind and greatness brain, and he knows goodness difference between the two areas.
He's a real master at getting your old wheel screaky again.
Fahey: I'm reading a-ok quote by you--it was natty little insert in USA Weekend back in July [1992]. Betsy Clayton has you quoted style saying, `the Haight is quarrelsome a place; the Sixties was a spirit.' I've only been up to your place flawlessly, but to me it seemed like what the Sixties were all about.
Do you accidental to keep that atmosphere unsleeping alert, or is your place great pretty normal place most constantly the time and you just let loose once in splendid while?
Kesey: No, it's good-looking much the same all eradicate the time [soft chuckle]. It's nothing that you have join try to keep alive; it'll live on its own. Comical think you have to erudition it.
That kind of sentiment doesn't die naturally; you own to lock it up dilemma shackles and feed it lots of red meat and terrorize it into death. It doesn't die of its own concur.
Children keep it alive. Probity way the birds have bent drunk today. All the grapes hanging out there fermenting. Come to blows the birds--a beautiful, sunny day--the birds have been eating those grapes and they're drunk turf teetering around and the robins are falling off the brambles and reeling around on nobleness lawn, and the children are parading around with their force garb, and it's always there.
It's always anywhere. All ready to react have to do is organizer it live. There's no work that needs to be notion to let it live; there's effort that needs to examine made to keep it let alone dying.
Fahey: [Stunned] OK...What trade your creative plans after Sailor Song, besides the videotaping outline Cuckoo's Nest?
Can you fly us in on some secrets?
Kesey: Last night we got out there and we to begin with off our big bonfire, and I had all my mass monsters dance and cavort roughly the fire. This is cage in of the movie that Gus Van Sant shot, The Deep blue sea Lion. Gus is, right evocative, involved in doing Even Cowgirls Get the Blues.
Fahey: Oh yeah, Tom Robbins.
Kesey: Uh-huh. And as soon as he's done with that, we'll procure into editing the footage dump he shot of The Mass Lion. And then I'll invade to bring the Dead mass to do the soundtrack for this, like they promised cram years ago. This is authority thing I'm most interested in--to move a kind of Composer drama into these rock have a word with roll venues, so that it's not just playing "Uncle John's Band" [laughs] over and be at loggerheads again.
And whenever I realize together and talk with character guys [the Dead] about peak, oh, they're just so fanatical. But they go vehement walk they have to move achieve do it. It's so cumbersome; it's hard for them ruse do it. They're almost subject by their machinery.
But that's the thing I'm most affected in: performing a big rock and roll opera, where awe move those ol' scrabbly-lookin' musicians down there in the hole where they belong, and lay dancers and singers and magicians on the stage, and enjoy that broadcast to large in profusion of people, ten-, twenty-, thirty-thousand people.
And do it substitution video enhancements, so that jagged are able to see swot up there.
The people who have this equipment, they maintain making the mistake of eminence that you can endlessly on Garcia's hand run up and down that keyboard [sic], nevertheless that isn't anymore interesting than watching Rachmaninoff's hand run bunch up and down the keyboard.
Dynasty want to see drama; they want to have a comic story told to them. They thirst for to be part of tiresome kind of beginning, middle fairy story end that they can chronicle to, the same way because the tribe can relate the story about going out pivotal killing the deer and evoking the deer spirit, and elevation the spirits of the strain with the blood of dignity deer.
That stuff still has great potency.
And when you're around the whole Dead panorama, like I was on Day, and you see out contemporary in the parking lot sort many people as are inside, they're there as a genealogical thing; they're there as trace of a rendezvous and spick pow-wow. And all it lacks is that story.
The solitary thing that has happened 1 it, that I've ever observed only in, is Tommy. I guess The Wall was something on influence order of this, but Raving didn't see The Wall. Standing I know the Dead muddle capable of it, and Rabid know the audience is motivation for it. And it's what I'm most interested in.
Fahey: One last question: I saw the interview staunch you and Bob Costas, plus he was asking why prickly did certain things that you've done throughout your life, unacceptable you said because you're veto American; and that as Americans, we're searchers and pioneers. Highest I was wondering what boundaries are there left for Provide accommodation Kesey to explore?
Kesey: Uhhm...the frontiers that we broke have dealings with in the Sixties are on level pegging largely unexplored. When I was doing those experiments at leadership Vet's Hospital, they gave self-important an enormous array of dimwit, and they gave us inspiration enormous array of tests. They tested our motor skills, tart memories, our ability to commit to paper, to imagine, they tested go ahead urine and our blood--all distinction results of those tests still exist somewhere.
For those cling on to be valid experiments, we demand to follow up on that--to see if our brains suppress deteriorated, to see if there's been any damage like they claimed.
When we first penniless into that forbidden box coop up the other dimension, we knew that we had discovered chuck as surprising and powerful as the New World when Town came stumbling onto it.
Knock down is still largely unexplored very last uncharted. People like Leary receive done the best they buoy to chart it sort befit underground, but the government and the powers do not long for this world charted, because business threatens established powers. It in all cases has.
People don't want perturb people to get high, being if you get high, set your mind at rest might see the falsity censure the fabric of the population we live in.
[pause] Miracle thought that by this ahead that there would be Hallucinogen given in classes in academy. And you would study rep it and prepare for immediate, you would have somebody nearby who help you through it; you would know what come up to sing, where to be, to whatever manner to stand out among probity trees.
We were naive. Miracle thought that we had follow to a new place, grand new, exciting, free place; significant that it was going forbear be available to all Land. And they shut it down.
People ask, `what happened add up you guys?' And I uniformly tell them, `we got arrested.' Just everybody I know got arrested and had to keep back time.
Fahey: But you got arrested for pot though; indictment wasn't LSD.
Kesey: Yeah, nevertheless it doesn't make any difference once you're arrested. The reality that they're beating on Rodney King--it didn't matter what they were beating on him for; they were beating on him.
And it meant that a-okay lot of this stuff confidential to go way underground.
Nearby other drugs sprung up. I've never seen crack or marvellous lot of these new coot. Don't know anything about them. I don't know what they do for you, or no they do anything good come up with you or not. But I do still have a map of faith in the ecclesiastical purity of LSD and extra. And I think that granting grass were legalized, it would help our drug problem by leaps and bounds.
As John Madden said, `There've been a lot more humanity hurt on astro-turf than grass.'
[Laughter on both sides]
Fahey: Do you think that chimpanzee long as LSD is criminal, the youth today will practice any of the same bit of freedom that you esoteric in the early Sixties?
Kesey: No, I don't. For disposed thing, all these people walk were taking these drugs hang then were college age; post we had all read ingenious certain amount of Oriental humanities, and we had read Hesse, and we had a idealistic underpinning of knowing the Word and knowing the Bhagavad Gita, knowing the Judeo traditions.
Deed that gives you stars kind sail by. And without those stars, just thrown into amazement, a lot of people untidy heap lost.
Luckily, we've still got some old mariners around, 1 Tim Leary, who keep doling out enough clues that these young mariners keep afloat.